Viva la Mami

112. Creating Healthy Sleep Habits: From Newborns to Toddlers with Verónica Ordóñez

• Jessica Cuevas • Season 4 • Episode 112

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In this episode, we welcome psychologist and certified gentle sleep coach Veronica Ordonez, founder of Lullaby Veronica. From establishing healthy sleep foundations for newborns to managing toddler bedtime boundaries, Veronica shares her expertise on helping families get better rest while respecting cultural dynamics. She opens up about her own journey navigating her daughter's sleep challenges and how that led her to become a sleep coach and provides practical tips for parents struggling with sleep training.

For detailed show notes, visit vivalamami.com/episode112

In This Episode, You’ll Hear:

  • How to build healthy sleep foundations from birth to toddlerhood
  • Gentle sleep training methods vs. cry-it-out
  • The common sleep challenges and myths
  • Cultural considerations in sleep training
  • The importance of prioritizing maternal rest
  • Setting consistent sleep boundaries
  • Balancing family traditions with healthy sleep habits

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Veronica!

Feeling overwhelmed by navigating cultural expectations and modern parenting as a Latina mom? Join Balanced Madrehood, Viva la Mami's signature coaching program designed to empower Latina moms to create a more balanced and fulfilling madrehood journey.  Head over to vivalamami.com/balanced-madrehood to learn more!

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jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Hola, hola amiga. Are you struggling to get your little ones to sleep through the night? Does bedtime feel like a never ending battle that leaves you exhausted and frustrated? Well, you're not alone mama. Whether you have a newborn who wakes up every two hours or a toddler who keeps sneaking into your bed at 2 a. m. like mine, their journey to establishing healthy sleep habits can feel overwhelming, especially when navigating cultural expectations and family dynamics. In today's episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Veronica Ordonez. A psychologist and certified gentle sleep coach who's here to help moms teach their little ones the magic of independent sleep. As the founder of Lullaby Veronica, her ultimate mission is helping moms get the rest they need to feel happy, recharged and ready to conquer their day or just survive it. Because we get it, mom life. In our conversation, Veronica opened up about how her daughter's sleep struggles led her to become a sleep coach. We discussed everything from newborn sleep patterns to toddler bedtime boundaries and how cultural differences can impact our approach to sleep routines. Veronica shared Invaluable insights on gentle sleep training methods that respect both parent and child and also debunking common myths along the way. And exciting news for the toddler mamas. an upcoming toddler sleep success no more bedtime struggles workshop On Wednesday, February 26th, and for just 27, you can learn expert strategies to transform your toddler's bedtime routine. The link to sign up is in the show notes. But before we dive in, I want to share a few quick reminders. In the show notes, you'll also find two important links. One where you can suggest topics you'd like me to cover on the show, just like this one and another where you can nominate potential guests. Maybe that's you or someone whose story and expertise could benefit our community of mamas. I truly believe in the power of sharing our stories and learning from each other's experiences and expertise. Your suggestions help make this show a valuable resource for moms looking to create their best version of motherhood, even in the midst of our beautiful chaos. And mama, if you're finding value in these conversations, please, please, please take a moment to rate and review the show. Your feedback not only helps other Latina moms find Viva La Mami, but it also ensures that fewer mamas feel alone in their motherhood journey. Whether you're listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube your support through ratings, reviews, subscriptions, and likes makes a huge difference. So please support us as well. I'm building this community for you, for us, because we need the space to connect, learn, and grow together. All right, amiga, well, now let's dive into today's episode with Veronica Ordúñez from Lullaby Veronica. Hola. Hola, Veronica. How are you?

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

I'm fine. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I'm doing this.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yes, I am very excited for you to be here as well. And ironically enough, our kiddos are asleep right now.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

That's when we get things done, right?

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yes, yes, that's yeah, that's true. That's when we're the most productive before we delve into the conversation about sleep, if you can, introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us a little bit more about yourself

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

sure. Um, yeah, so hello everyone. My name is Veronica and I'm a psychologist, a certified sleep coach. A mom, a wife, a daughter, a friend. I get all the. All the tags. Um, so I'm from Mexico. I grew up in Mexico, um, in Monterrey. That's a city for those of you who doesn't know. It's a city on the north, north of Mexico. And I was born there. I lived there for 25 years and then moved to Mexico City where I met my husband. And because of his job, we moved here seven years ago. So, yeah. We, we end up moving here when we were both adults and our life was pretty, um, I don't want to say built, but like we, we never dreamed of like living somewhere else. So that transition, when you are an adult and coming to leave it to the U. S. has been, it has been really hard, but here we are and it's been 7 years. Um, as I mentioned, I'm a mom, my daughter, I have 2 kids, my older daughter, she's 8, almost 8. And my younger son, he's almost four. Um, and I started in this sleep, sleep, uh, coaching journey because as most of the coaches, my daughter, I don't want to say that she was a terrible sleeper because I don't love. The the term using good or bad sleeper. She just sat. She had some needs that I wasn't able to identify at that moment because I knew nothing about sleep. So, but I knew that something wasn't right. I was just laying next to her crib, her toddler bed for like an hour. And then. At some point I would just put up an air mattress on the floor and just spend the night there and I was so tired and I was like so angry and upset and it was just like I was not feeling okay and I thought this is not how motherhood is supposed to feel. And um, I hired a sleep coach and everything changed. It was kind of like a miracle how I felt after what my daughter Was how she was behaving after was incredible. And I decided that with my psychology background, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to help more moms feel the same way. And I started these step coaching journey. I've been doing this for almost, uh, I think five years now. Um, I have my own business. It's called Lola by Veronica. And I also work for a company called Maven where I get, uh, clients can book consultations with me if they have this benefit through their company. Um, I'm working, I'm working with a lot of working moms too that are returning back to work and I love it. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, and yeah, that's, that's basically me. That's what I do.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and I am so excited to talk about this because I know that there's many of us that share a similar sentiment in terms of you. You try to do everything that you can, you know, you even ask your pediatrician, you look at all of these different articles and resources and you just seem like you are kind of alone in this. And, and I feel like as many mamas, we carry the, that load, right, about how to best use effective ways, um, and positive ways in, in putting them to sleep. So I, I'm very excited to talk about that for sure. Before we kind of go further into that, like you shared your experience about immigrating seven years ago as an adult, And how you've wanted to connect with other adults. Uh, how has your experience been with connecting with Latina moms, especially, where you live, right? How has that been with raising bilingual kids? Can you tell us about your journey about finding a support system, considering that your family's

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

It's not here.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Um, it has been, I don't want to say it is hard, but it hasn't been that hard, but I think it's because of my personality. Like I talk with, If I'm like at a buying groceries and there's, and I hear someone speak Spanish, I'm like, Hey, I speak Spanish too. What's your name? And what do you do? And we exchange phone numbers. So I'm very open, especially at the beginning. Like I would just like, I had like a, like a monitor or something and I would hear someone having a conversation in Spanish and I would just like draw, like. Um, but then, so that's why I started making a lot of friends and I start looking for like online communities. There are a few groups here in Asheville, so you could just go online and start going to the events that they're doing. It's funny because sometimes I get like DMs on Instagram, like, Hey, I saw that you commented on a post and in Spanish, I'm also from like Mexico or whichever part, like I was just big Spanish, like let's meet or something. So. It's funny because we are all looking for the same things. So once you start connecting and being more open to just knowing more people, it just, I think like it falls into place. I feel like the biggest challenge has been, it is different when you are born here and when you move here as an adult, because. You, you, like you have this thing, you're both from the same place. You both speak Spanish. You have the same culture, but at the same time, we, we think really different in some things. So it's been hard to connect with people that are on my same situation. Like, Oh, you just move here. I find that I connect more with those people that with people from Mexico that have been here for like forever, or they were born here. Um, and I like it because I get like, Insight from both parts. Um, but yeah, I mean, I've been really open. It's been a great experience. I have found a lot of good friends. I, you mentioned, I don't have family here, so whenever I need something, now I have my friends that I know I can leave my kids with them if I have an emergency and then my emergency contact is my neighbor because he, I mean, my neighbor is not, he's an American, but he's my emergency contact for my kids. So it's, it's, it's been hard and it's a challenge, but also. I feel like it's a great experience. Like I wouldn't change anything. Um, I'm learning a lot and I feel like my kids are learning a lot too, from like noticing how I challenged myself doing by doing this.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And I think it's all about being intentional and finding your village, right? And this can be either your mommy friends or the emergency contact, right? I think that that's awesome that you get to choose who a lot of people that I know, like they can't choose, like they have no other way, but their family. And sometimes they end up butting heads or, you know, el escándalo, sometimes that happens within that.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

drama, drama familiar, we say.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, the drama, yeah.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Yeah. And you get to pick your friends. That's really, that's something I learned. You say yes, but also it's, it's okay to say no. Like I, I, I met someone and I say yes, yes, yes. And then at some point I can say no, like. I don't want to be your friend anymore. And it's okay. Like we both know, like there's no chemistry. It's okay. We can say no and just keep finding new friends. And like, we are adults. No one's gonna like, there's no much drama now. At least that's how I feel.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

That's so true. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, we're adults can get to

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Unfortunately.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, I know. That's true. Within that. Yeah, it comes with a lot of responsibility and a lot to do and, and, and this kind of conversation about sleep, right? I think that that is often a lot of the, at least that was one of the big things that I worried about. Because I, Was a night owl when I was a baby like my mom said get dumb Like yeah, so remedio to try to put me to sleep and I was basically on third shift. And so knowing that she struggled with putting me into a bed routine. I worried that my kids were going to end up the same way so that karma can hit me.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Did it or

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

And no, they didn't thank God, but you know, they're, they're still, they still struggle. Like right now I thought the little one was asleep, but my husband's still trying to put him to sleep. Yeah. Uh, but he's teething too. And so it's always like that, right? Like once when you think you nailed it. it

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

There's always something. There's always like a transition, a tooth coming out, an ear infection, a cold. There's always something.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

always something. And so let's Go all the way back to like the newborn stage. Cause I know that there's many new mamas who listened to the show. Can you share some tips on how, you know, mom's parents can establish a healthy sleep foundation for a newborn how, how does

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

The most important thing that I would say, like, I want to start with saying that, um, At the beginning, sleep is not the priority. Like, the baby sleeping is not the priority. The priority is that you as a mom, you recover and you adapt to these new family dynamics. Sometimes we, as soon as we are out of the hospital, we are already like trying to figure out how many hours and how and when and And it's not the time. The first few weeks, it's all about, again, getting to know your baby, getting to know yourself as a mom, recovering from like, like the postpartum and delivery and whatever your situation was. Uh, and just get more sleep. It doesn't matter how. Most moms, they don't sleep. Uh, really struggle with like, I don't want to create bad habits, so I'm not going to hold my baby to sleep, or I'm not going to let my baby cry, or I am going to let him cry, and again, during the first week is just do whatever you feel like. Whatever you feel comfortable with and sleep will eventually come. Um, at least during the first four weeks when someone like wants to talk, I'm like, no, we're not going to talk. You're not going to do anything. Just focus on optimize your sleep and recover. After four weeks, there's definitely a few things that you can start doing and I call this like building a healthy sleep foundation and you go step to step. You're doing great. One or two things every month, and then you're building a healthy foundation. So when your baby's closer to six months old, when you actually can sleep train your baby or teach your baby how to sleep on his own. You have something very, uh, like a very, uh, foundation that's, uh, that you can start building independent sleep on top of that. Um, and basically you can start like the first when, as soon as your baby turns one month old, and if you feel ready, you can start with something as easy as putting your baby down on a sleep friendly environment. Just make sure it's dark and it's like quiet that you have white noise that everything's calm. And that's it. As long as you're just putting your baby down in a friendly environment. Around the same time every night That's okay. That's the best that you can do. After that, you start regulating bed time and wake up time. So let's say around eight weeks, you can start like building a routine. Like, okay, every night at 9 p. m. I'm gonna go upstairs. I'm gonna do the last feeding of the day. I'm gonna change diaper. I'm gonna put pajamas. I'm gonna turn the lights off and put my baby down or rock my baby or do whatever your routine is and just be very consistent with that. Uh, and with waking up your baby at the next day. So okay, I'm going to put my baby down at nine and wake him up every day at eight. And that's what you do. You repeat that. So you already have two things. You're putting your baby down in a sleep friendly environment. Now you're putting your baby down at the same time and waking him up at the same time every day. So, You're building kind of like a routine and a schedule. Um, when babies are closer to 12 weeks, that's when there's your kiddie and rhythm kicks in. That's when they actually know when night and daytime is. And we start pushing bedtime earlier. That's when babies are more like. Go to bed between 30, which is the time that most, uh, babies from 12 weeks up to maybe five year old kids. That's the bedtime that we usually recommend. And then their wake up time will also adjust to anything, anytime between 6 and 7. 30. So now you're, you have like a more, uh, consistent schedule. You won't see any consistency on naps during the first months because naps are all over the place. I always tell my patients like do not worry about naps. You have like a free pass. Short naps are okay. Long naps are okay. As long as your baby is getting an average of like four to five hours depending on the age, you are on the right track. Just keep doing what you're doing. Um, and then once your baby gets closer to five point five or six, That's when you, we start intentionally teaching about independent sleep, like putting your baby that the famous drowsy but awake that I'm sure most moms are part of it. It will not, it probably will not work before five months and we just get so stressed about why, why would my baby is not okay with me putting him down because he's a baby and he, I mean, he's not supposed to know how. Um, so if you're holding your baby to sleep, you're rocking your baby to sleep, you're nursing your baby to sleep. It's fine. Those are cool power tools during the first month where you're going to create habits. Yes. But habits are meant to be broken, so you will be able to break that habit later when you are ready and when your baby's ready.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And yeah, I mean this, this is awesome because I think that you're kind of allowing nature take its course sort of thing, but obviously, uh, being strategic and, and. Setting kind of like a foundation, especially when it comes to, you know, the, the first, uh, couple of weeks where, you know, it doesn't have to be, um, Like a specific plan it can just be as easy as putting the sound Machine on so that it does create that foundation and I love it. I I remember Yeah, like that was the easy part they were newborns Like they never fussed or cried and then yeah, the the hard part came when they were about six

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Yeah. Yeah. Because when they cry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, they cry, and they, they just need you to hold them, and that's the easiest part, like, and then, It's funny because back then when we are going through it, we don't want to hold him anymore. We're like, I just want to be able to put them down. And you're like, no, that's the easy part. Now I want to hold my three year old. And he would not like, he just struggles and fight. Like, no, I want to walk. This

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. And so you mentioned this briefly about your daughter, how you were trying to find ways, to help and support her sleep and, and with you being, um, a psychologist, obviously sleep and development kind of intertwined together, right? Like, I think there is overall, like, if you establish healthy sleep habits, kids, babies, You know, oftentimes you're setting them up for success for their growth and well being. And so considering that, and you know, obviously you can delve more into this because this is your, your area of expertise, but tell us a little bit more about your daughter's situation and, and how did that overall influence you to decide on being a sleep coach?

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

this is really interesting because it ended up being something, like, even though I became sleep coach and it got better, I ended up going with a sleep doctor, which is a huge thing. Um, so at the moment, even though, like, I was a psychologist, I had no idea about, like, development. I have no idea. What a toddler should like behave, what were like the characteristics. So I was lost. Like she was not sleeping at the right time. She was not napping. Like everything was out of place. I feel like at that time there was not that many information online, like social media and not that many sleep coaches. So I had no idea what to do or what to expect or whatever. So the funny thing is that after, after I started working with a sleep coach, It got way better with very simple tweaks, like being consistent with how you respond. And she was two and a half, so it was about establishing healthy boundaries about. The rules at night, like the rules is that you are staying in your, on your bed all night and the rules are that if you wake up, you need to go back to sleep on your own. So it's with toddlers, it's all about being very consistent and being sure that they know what's expected from them. Um, and as a prime being very consistent, like, if you already said, no, it's a non negotiable and you're going to sleep in your bed. And I always like to put an example as the car seat. So the car seat is a non negotiable and a lot of babies cry and then since it's something that it's a, it's a boundary that you cannot break. They end up being in the car seat or booster for like eight years. So the same thing happened with sleep. Like if it's not negotiable that they should sleep in their crib or their bed, or like do not leave their room in the middle of the night, you're just going to understand, but they're going to fight it and fight it. So the thing is that it got way better. She was sleeping in her own room, but there was something like when she was three or four, she would tell me like, mom, I'm tired. So she would wake up, wake up very early. She's always been an early riser. And she would say like, mom, I'm tired. And I would like, she had like dark eyes. So I talked to my pediatrician. I'm like, I'm a sleep coach. I'm doing everything right. Like she has the right schedule, the right rules, the right, uh, healthy sleep habits and something's not okay. And it took me like a year to get the recommendation from my pediatrician to go and see a sleep doctor, because I knew that they are, A sleep disorders that toddlers or even babies can have so we end up doing a sleep study, which is like you are all connected so they can sense your sleep waves and the way your body moves. And she was having trouble with her breathing, like she was everything here, like, it's not a sleep apnea. Uh, but everything's so small here that she was, she's having trouble breathing. So in the middle of the night, she would, that was waking her up very often and she was not getting a deep, deep sleep. She was not going through all the sleep like phases. Anyway, it was something as simple as just using a spray, a nasal spray. And it changed a lot. Like she was not tired anymore. She was more functional. And, and the thing is that you have to go through all this phases of working on healthy sleep habits. And if you are doing all the things and you still have a sense, like you're, when you are the mom, you know, when something's off, if you know that something's off then push to like, until you find the solution. And as for now, she's been using the spray and I mean, we'll still working on healthy sleep. She knows that. No TB before bed and we get the room ready and she has a schedule. I mean, she's eight now. She goes to bed like at eight. Um, but still like, we are very consistent with a few things so that it still works. And most of the advice, the funny thing is that applies to adults too. Like having a routine, a schedule, it's just, it's for everyone. And if you start teaching your, your kids the importance at that age, they're just gonna, Or grow up knowing what's healthy and how a healthy routine looks like.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, that's, I'm glad that you said that because, um, At least for me, I, I didn't really have a specific routine necessarily, I think. Well, I guess, Yes, I mean, we, we kind of had a routine, but we slept pretty late, you know, and I remember we would just like be at my grandma's house and we would have dinner all the way until like 8pm, 9pm. And then we would go to bed at like 10pm. Right. And then here comes the next day where we had to wake up super early and, and I see that a lot in Latino community, like households.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

yeah,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

I still have a lot of aunts, tias, you know, like who are still not, even though they have their phone at their disposal, like, I'm like, well, it is, you know, you have little ones, like, these kids need to go to sleep. And then I also feel like, No one has ever said this. No one has confronted me or my husband about, Oh, y'all are too strict or whatever, but you know, we, we still want to maintain, uh, a healthy sleep schedule and routine even on weekends. Sometimes we're a little loose, right. But I would say definitely no later than 10 PM because then it comes back to

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

exactly. The next day

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

The next day Yeah. And. I don't know if you've worked with clients, right, who are, you know, first, second gen who are trying to break from the things that we grew up seeing with our families and not having that schedule and routine, right, like, what would you say to a mom who's struggling with that who really wants to establish a healthy sleep routine and foundation overall, but perhaps they feel a Like they're going to be criticized because, yeah, like they're putting their kids first versus like la quinceanera that's happening next weekend, you know? Ya

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

really good, um, question because yes, I work with like, I work with American families and then I work with Latino families and with families that are like in India and Spain. It's really interesting to see. the cultural differences. So yeah, in Mexico we put babies and it's, and it's kind of changing, but we are used to, like, my mom says the same thing. Like, why do you, why? Like, I feel like she doesn't even like knows exactly why I'm a sleep coach. Like, I don't know why you do what you do. I don't know why you're getting money by that because I didn't need that. And you're fine. Right. Um,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

bien,

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

yeah, like you're fine. You're turning out really good. Um, so one of the first questions that I always ask my patients is what's your goal? Like, what do you want to achieve? And then we go from there. Uh, and I have worked with families that. say, you know what? I want to be able to put my baby down from Monday to Friday. I on a schedule, but I want to be able to just like, be able to break that schedule or have a late schedule during the weekends, because that's when I have like, I go out and I have family time or whatever, and we work around that. Um, so I always tell them like, it is possible. Uh, it's always hard when the holidays are around, like, like, uh, Posadas and all that. Um, so you have, You can either engage in a conversation on trying to convince them, which I don't recommend. I always tell them to you. You know what? Thanks for that. But it's working for us. It works from Monday to Friday and it works for like the other 360 days of the year that we are alone. Thanks for the recommendation. But I think we're going to think about that and probably I've discussed that with my, with my husband and thank you, like, just be very gentle and say, thank you. And then the rest of the days or the rest of the year or the rest of the week, you're just going to do what works for you. And then one night, two nights of being very flexible. It's fine. When you have a very healthy sleep foundation, it's easier. Uh, to go out of the schedule instead of the other way around. Sometimes we think that if we put them on a schedule and it's going to be so hard for them to have a late night on a Saturday, but it's the other way around. Like, they are so good during the week. Then if they have a late night, you know what to do the next day, you know, like he started sleep. I'm just going to do an extra nap and I know that he likes to sleep this way. So you just go back. And even when you go on vacation, like, you just embrace it. And he's like, okay, it's going to be a mess during vacation. He's going to go to bed late and he's going to be very like wake up very early in the morning and it's fine. He's just going to nap and when we're back home, we're just going to be back into routine and it's going to work out like you need to have this very active, flexible, uh, mentality in order to like to survive because that's the way things are. Even me that I got to have my family here. Every Saturday, my kids sleep at like 11 or maybe midnight. And I know the next day is crazy. And I was like, the next day I'm like, Oh, why, why did I do this? But then it was worth it. The next day they are super. Uh, fussy and I'm fussy and we are screaming at each other. And then on Monday we're all happy and back to our happy selves. So,

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

willing to take that sacrifice for one day. Yeah, no, yeah, that makes sense. I love that you mentioned how every family is going to be different. It's going to work for them in a different way. Uh, because yeah, I, I totally agree. I think to what point though, do you think that families should create? a better routine? Is it usually when they, when kids are really fussy or, you know, when it does affect them, like let's say in school or to what point, should a, a parent really set like a routine when it comes to their sleep?

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Um, usually when I see that something's not working in the middle of the night. So if you don't have a routine, but your baby, like it's sleeping through the night, he's not waking up, he's happy. He's not always tired. He's not super fuzzy. He's cry being pediatricians. This is, he's like growing fine. Then it's fine. Like I always, I have this rule. If it's not broken, do not try to fix it because sometimes it works. I have met families that they say like, yeah, my. Kids go to bed at 10 and they wake up at seven and they're fine. And I'm like, Oh my God, how do they do it? But they are functional. So if it's not broken, do not try to fix it. But if you come to me and say like my, my toddler, he's waking up in the middle of the night a few times, he's having a hard time falling asleep. He's having night terrors. He's coming to my bed every night. It's taking like an hour for him to fall asleep. He's not napping. He's having like a lot of meltdowns. Then the first thing that we check is the schedule, like making sure that you have a routine, that he's sleeping at a time that he's supposed to be sleeping, waking up at the time that he's appropriate for his age and napping the amount of time that he is. And sometimes you don't even know, like need like a whole sleep training. You just need to make a few tweaks. And it works. It's just like, Oh my God, I put my baby down an hour earlier and everything fell into place. So sometimes it's very easy, but the impact that a good schedule has is It's amazing how it can change things.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I couldn't agree with you. Yeah. And so for us mamas who are in the middle of like trying to sleep train our babies like babies babies right at six months what type of methods are there and and i definitely have heard of the cry out method i've heard of the ferber method and all of these different things a lot of moms freak out about the crying out method specifically. Like, can you debunk some sleep training myths and explain what your approach is, uh, towards like a more gentler, like sleep.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Yeah. So the method that I use, it's called gentle sleep, uh, coaching. And this is something that people think like, okay, with a gentle method, my baby's not going to cry. And with the cry it out, my baby's going to cry a lot. And it's not like that babies cry. Like that's the only way that they know how to say like, mom, pick me up. I don't like this. Or mom, you were like, Nursing me to sleep yesterday. What happened today? Like, so crying is the only way that they know how to communicate, right? Um, so crying is not bad. The difference between a gentler method and a regular like fervor or cry it out is your involvement as a parent. So with extinction method or with any cry it out, you basically like put your baby down and you leave the room. And it can vary. You either stay outside the room until your baby falls asleep, but it can take an hour, two hours or whatever. You can do some checkings, like you go in and say like, you're fine and do it every three minutes and then every five. And there are a lot of variations, but that's like the minimal involvement. And then with a more gentle method, you're just there by their side while they go through this. So they are going through a learning curve, right? Like you put them down and they're like, Hmm, what is this? I don't like this. And they cry and then they turn around and they sit and they're like, Hmm, okay, maybe I can do it. And they try and then they cry again and that's what they do for like an hour or two. Um, so if you're there like by their side and then you're just there, Letting them know that you are supporting them through this challenge. Like, okay, you're going through something, but I'm here. You're holding their hand, you're touching them, you're using your voice to reassure. And I like this because I feel like they just feel more, uh, content and safe. Like, okay, this is something rough. I have to do it on my own, but my mommy's here or my daddy or whatever. Um, again, there's nothing wrong with the crying. Some people think like if they cry, you're going to scar them for life. Like, obviously, if they cry for three hours every day, And you're not attending their needs and you're not changing the diaper. You're not feeding him. Obviously the attachment that you're building is not going to be nice. Good. But if you're with your baby all day, attending their like basic needs, and then if by the end of the day, you try to teach them something and it's hard for them, but you're there, they are actually learning that that's a secure attachment, like someone with me while I go through these hard times. So, um, that's the main difference. One thing that I always tell my patients is because they ask like, when's the right time? Is it the six months or one year? The right time is whenever you feel ready, because if you do it at six months, just because everyone, everyone else is doing it, but you don't feel ready or you feel like your baby's not ready. It's not going to work because you're going to end up, maybe he's going to cry for 30 minutes and you're going to pick him up, or you're just not going to be able to stay consistent. So

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

hmm.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

it there's, it's, it's never late. You can start when they're like even five or maybe older. Um, some parents decide to wait to see if they can actually learn on their own and it can happen. Like babies can learn on their own at six months or three years or at eight years, like you never know.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

whenever you feel ready, you're not comfortable with the situation, and you're ready to start working, that's the right time.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because it, it's all gonna depend on the family dynamic, the situation that families are in, and I think that we get so infatuated with. What we see on social media. And I think that that in itself has benefits, but definitely disadvantages, I think, because we can't, you know, really listen to our own intuition really. And I know that you shared how, like when your daughter, when she was younger, like, you know, you shared that there wasn't a lot of information out there. And for me, I'm like, Oh, I think like there's so much information overload that you really don't know what direction to go. To you know when it comes to sleep And I appreciate you sharing that there is another approach than like the popular ones because a lot of times, you know, we we do feel Uncomfortable. I think that we definitely did that cry out method with diego and my mom was like And we're like, well, this is this is the one thing that I know I don't know and And we kind of tried it and we're like, yeah, we're not a fan of this and then we just did it Decided to do, I have no idea. Our random approach,

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

online, something, something.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

something, something, yeah. And then with Mateo, I mean, this kid, I don't know, we're, we're still struggling just a little bit and I'm like, dang, I wonder if it's because we didn't really set like an actual, sleep training on him, but. I feel like we're still in survival mode with

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

With him, well, he's, he's still young. He's, he's not two yet, right? He's at 20 months.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah, he's 20 months and so he's, yeah, and I think he's right now he, he definitely sleeps through the night, which is great. Um, he weaned, he self weaned to like, um, a couple months ago, which I'm still like sad, but I'm like, no, this is great because he, he just doesn't wake up in the middle of the night. Now with Diego, who just turned four for some reason for the past two months, he has been waking up in the middle of the night and we. I don't know. He's dropped his nap. He doesn't want to nap in the afternoons and he's very reluctant on that even though I know that he's tired. I know he's sleepy and so we've definitely Have put him a little bit earlier to bed. So he sleeps Sleep time starts at 7 and by 7 30, he's usually asleep But he still keeps waking up in the middle of the night. So I'm just like what's going on? and so I know that oftentimes toddlers have like what you shared those like night terrors II They go through the sleep regressions. So like What are some of those common challenges faced by toddlers and and how can we navigate these challenging times because they're also like in school right and they have a specific schedule to wake up in the

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

to follow

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

and and yeah yeah so what what are some approaches here for

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

for toddlers. So first, first, things first, I want everyone to understand that toddlers or kids are allowed to have bad nights too. Like, you know, sometimes you are in a role like this week it was rough. I'm waking up a lot and you don't know why. So sometimes it's, maybe it's something you eat, something you watch on TV, like maybe you have anxiety because something's happening, but they go through the same things. Like maybe something changed at school, like even like a new student or something changed and that's like, it gives them like anxiety and they might like wake up a little bit more. So understanding that that's normal too, that they can have bad nights. That's just one thing because sometimes it's just two nights and we're like no everything like everything's out of place And this is so hard. It's been two nights. It just Keep it a break. Obviously, if it's been like more than two weeks, then, okay, let's go back and see what's happening. Um, with toddlers, the main struggles or the main challenges is that they love to push boundaries. So, they will always wake up in the middle of the night, right? But when they are toddlers, they're like, Hmm, what if I go to my parents room? What if I ask them that I want to stay? Like, it's all about pushing your buttons and, you know, Like just testing all those limits and boundaries to see how consistent you are and to see if they can just, um, like, they defy authority. So it's all about the limits. So it's very hard for us because we need to stay very consistent with the things that we established in the beginning. They can have, so that's one thing they can have night terrors and nightmares. Those usually start between around two. And I mean, they Nightmares stay for a long time. Um, the most important thing about nightmares is just to understand that it is that they are actually scared of something, even if we know that it's not true, like no, a shark is not under your bed, we know for a fact that it's not there, like the fear that like they're feeling it's real, so we don't just leave them there, we try to like help them and what I like to do is treat them as. As we would treat a friend, like, okay, what would you say to a friend that comes and they're like, I'm having a nightmare, I cannot go back to sleep. You'll probably say like, hey, think of something positive, breathe, uh, maybe use your phone and like listen to a meditation or something in the middle of the night so you can forget the idea. So I like to have that same approach with toddler, like, hey, let's talk about something you love. So instead of talking about the nightmare, let's do the opposite. What do you do today? Uh, what's your favorite cartoon? Uh, what do you want to dream of? Do you want to dream about a unicorn and what color is a unicorn? So you start like replacing the bad thoughts with good thoughts. And that's also very useful when they, when they are very anxious, because at that age, when they go to bed at night and everything's dark, that's when they start thinking the bad thoughts as we are, that's when you start thinking on your to do list and your presentation for the next day. And like, All the things that you shouldn't be thinking, you start when you're laying in bed with lights out. The same thing happened to them. So be very mindful about like helping them visualize good thing, um, reading, um, so that they can learn how to manage that instead of redoing it for them. Um, and again, being very consistent with the rules. If we bend the rules one day, they don't understand exceptions. They don't know like, Ooh, it was because I was sick. No, no, no. Even when they're not sick anymore, they're going to start asking again to go to your bed because they know that it's It's an option, right? Um, I always use like a sleep manner chart when needed. So for example, if you have the right schedule and Diego, you said Diego is your older one, like he's waking up a lot. It's not about teaching him or making him not wake up in the middle of the night. It's about teaching him on what to do when that happens. So you know what Diego, that happens to me a lot. I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night. And you know what? It helps if I stay in my bed and close my eyes and count to 10. Or it helps if I stay in bed and maybe sing a song or count my fingers or like, just give him some strategies that you actually use and acknowledge that the fact that he's waking up, there's nothing wrong with that because it's something that's, that he's not able to control. What he can control is what happens. When he wakes up, like you can stay in your bed, you can think about this and you can do this or go to the restroom or have a sip of water. At some point, I told my daughter, you can grab a book. If you're having a hard time falling asleep, turn on your night, night, night, read a book, and then you'll feel sleepy. And I would see her through the monitor like reading and she will go like, because it was working. I'm like, okay, once that happened, close your book and go, go to sleep. So at least they know that they shouldn't go and wake you up. They can do it on their own.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yeah,

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

I don't know if that was helpful. Was that the answer that you were expecting? Yeah.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Well, no, I, I mean, I obviously don't want this to be a consultation for me, but I'm sure that this is a similar sentiment across the board. Like I know so many of Diego's friends, like moms in school, like they're like, my kid keeps waking up in the middle of the night and you know, they keep coming to us and that's how it is too. Like, I think. It could be because this is like everyone's first year in pre k three right and It's probably like their little brains are just like activated. I don't know But yeah, Diego keeps coming On our bed and and sometimes I don't even feel him. I'm like, how did he open the door? And my husband though, he's a little loose like he he just lets him sleep over and I'm like no don't let him like, you know, but I do believe though that we definitely need to set those boundaries because ultimately we want him to be successful, right? We don't want him to just like keep doing this out of a habit and it's not so necessarily like a reason, you know, behind it. And so yeah, thank you for sharing that.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

and and I'm having a toddler workshop this month and we're focusing on that. Like how to stop those behaviors. So I'm going to send you the link to see if like any of the listeners would like to sign up for that because it is a hard, it's like toddlers. They can talk and they are very convincing and creative in the middle of the night and you're like, So, and again, once we let them do it and there's nothing wrong, like I have worked with families that they just like, yeah, my toddler comes to my bed every night and I'm okay with it. But then sometimes we're not like, I was not okay with that. And I actually end up putting a baby gate on my daughter's door when she was like three, almost four. And it was not because she was not able, like she was able to unlock the door. But I told her like, that's just a reminder for you to remember that you cannot leave your room. And she was like, Oh, okay. Um, and it worked like she would wake up and she would see the gate and like, okay, I need to stay here. She was really motivated. Like I can do this because she was getting a sticker and lots of praise on the night that she would actually stay in her room. And she was still waking up, but at least she was staying in her room. And then when they wake up and they know that there's nothing out there for them, they just go back to sleep.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

right, right, yeah, okay. Wow. Well, yes, definitely share that link. I might possibly join too because I feel like, yeah, this is, this is a habit and then he's It's so funny, he keeps like. He walks into our bed, and then he's like, Tengo sed. And I'm like, well, you get it like, you know, and then he grabs it from his room because he has to sleep with his water bottle next to him. And then, then he puts it on my nightstand, you know, you can do this in your room, but whatever. And, and I love it.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Yeah, it is. it is. And that's what I say, like sometimes they do learn on their own. Sometimes after brain, like you are allowed to not do, like don't do anything and just wait it out. And it might be like by two and a half, your baby is sleeping on his own in his own toddler bed. And nothing's wrong, but you can also end up with a 10 year old not being able to, like, they don't know what to do when they wake up. Because we all wake up in the middle of the night. I wake up in the middle of the night, and I know exactly what to do. Like, I know how to switch position, how to, like, use my pillow this way. And if I'm having a hard time, I actually, like, grab a book, and it, like, I know what to do. So that's why I want to send my, my kids for success. Like when these happens, because it's going to happen, this is what you're going to do. This is what works for me. Let's find out what works for you.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yes. Yes.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

yeah, sometimes you're going to have those nights where they come to your room and like, I'm having a nightmare and you just need to keep them extra support. Like that's just. I sometimes have nightmare and I wake up my husband like, Hey, I'm having a nightmare. Just hold my hand. Right. So, um, yeah, I mean, it is, it is very good to establish that foundation and start teaching them about healthy sleep now they're there because they're, it's going to set them for success.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Oh, I love it. Yes, I agree. I agree. And it's also giving them that self advocacy too. And that way they know how to approach it. Yeah. Instead of, yeah, just depending on us. And yeah, that's so true. So we talked about babies. We talked about toddlers. How about mamás? How should we also prioritize our sleep and really take care of ourselves? And how helping our kids sleep independently, kind of going back to this conversation, like how does that ultimately contribute to our own well being? Um, yeah.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

baby, if he has a rough night, he's going to fall asleep in the car seat the next day or like when they're sleepy and they're, they're going to fall asleep. And you're not allowed to do that because you need to work. You need to cook. You need to like do all the things. So sleep training and sleeping through the night is not just for the kids. It's for all like we need. six to eight hours at night to just recover and be our best version the next day. There's a lot of research out there that it says like, if you're not sleeping at least like six hours for at least four hours straight, but if you're not getting like at least four, that's the minimum. you have like less patience with your kids. Like you are more prone to, if your kid is does something, you're going to just jump into a, uh, like a solution, a fast solution that might not be the best one, but you just like act like, very quick without thinking. Um, and then even your, your diet, like if you're on a diet and you're, you're trying to stay consistent with healthy habits on eating, you're If you're not sleeping well, there's actually a lot of research that says that you tend to choose like sugary foods or foods that are more like high in carbs or whatever that you don't need just because your body is craving that, is craving that like fast energy. So Um, we need the sleep. Um, once you teach your baby and your baby sleeping and like through the night, your baby has a routine, a schedule nights, your turn, like you need to have healthy sleep boundaries to like, do not watch TV an hour before going to bed, have a routine. Like, okay, I'm going to go to bed at the same time every night. And I'm going to wake up at the same time every morning and have a routine. That's the best thing that you can do. at night and in the morning. So, um, yeah, basically those two things are the most important for, for moms.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Yes, thanks for putting it out there. I think it's definitely important. That is like my non negotiable, even though yes, I still get tired. Like, I get so tired by 2pm. I'm just like, where's my nap? But I yeah, I really, really appreciate it. Um, and advocate for them. Like I need to have at least six hours. Otherwise I'm not going to function. And, This is a reminder for all the moms out there that we need to definitely prioritize our sleep. Cause otherwise we get like dysregulated, we get upset. And I, that's interesting that you mentioned about the foods too, how our body craves for the not so good foods, because yeah, perhaps we're, you know, Missing out on the time that we should be sleeping,

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

and I feel like your kids deserve your best version and your best version will be when you're well rested. Uh, when you actually can play with them during the day, sometimes like, well, I want them close to me at night. But then, okay, maybe you're, you're co sleeping and you're not comfortable, your toddler is kicking you, and then the next day you're all grumpy. So it's better to just, maybe you're not co sleeping, but during the day, because you were like, you slept really good, during the day you're playing, you're in the floor with them. And with toddlers, I, I, tell parents that let them know, like when you have a good night, like maybe they slept through the night and they didn't woke you up. Say things like, Oh my God, I feel so good because last night I didn't wake up at all. So you know what? I have 10 minutes to take a walk with you or do that running that you love or go and jump in the trampoline or go and I don't know, like let them know then when you are well rested, they get the best version of you. And it's, I mean, you don't have to say it all day, but at least once and, and that they will start understanding like, yeah, when my mom sleeps through the night, she's going She's more happy and she's more funny. And when I sleep through the night, I'm happier and I'm like, I feel better because they do, like they, they cannot relate that, but after four, they can start like kind of figuring that out. So you can start. Letting them know.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

Love it. That's a great tip. Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah. And so what are ways that people can work with you when it comes to sleep training? Tell us a little bit more about your offers.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

I work with, um, families with babies, zero months, even when they are pregnant, like I do a workshop where I teach them what to expect during the first weeks, but basically zero months to four or sometimes five year olds. That depends on, on, on the situation. And I do one on one consultations. I do mini consultations and like full one hour consultations. I love the mini consultations because I know like our busy lives sometimes we just, Hey, I just have a few questions because sometimes you spend more like time and money, like online, like buying these cars and then looking at these reels and researching these accounts and the other. So if we sit for 30 minutes, Sometimes that's more useful and we just like schedule or dropping an app or a transition. Transitioning out of the parent's bed or transitioning to their own room. Like all those little things that you just have a few questions. That's what we do on many consultations. I also do sleep training, sleep coaching, which is a, like we work together for one month and we go from whatever sleep process you have, like nursing your baby to sleep and your baby sleeping in your room too, well, it depends on the goal, but it's basically I want my baby to sleep through the night in his own crib. So we. We go there. It looks different to every family. Uh, I consider like your baby's temperament, family dynamics, and like a lot of things that I take into account to create a sleep plan. Um, and I do have online workshops and webinars once a month, um, for newborns and this month I'm working on toddlers and it's going to be on February 26th. So I have a lot going on. There's always either online. Also, if you are in the Nashville area, I have a few pop up sessions, like in person, when you bring your babies and we sit on the floor and we just talk about sleep. Um, so yeah, any, any, any way that you want to, like, I just have 30 minutes. Let's do it. I have the whole month. Let's do it.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

I'll definitely share all the links in the description as well as on the website for this particular episode and that way people can, uh, you connect with you because I think this is very important, especially within our community. I hardly. see or hear Latina sleep coaches. And so I think that you're doing an amazing job for, uh, you know, all moms, right? Uh, obviously you're not very, uh, intended for Latina moms, but at least for those Latina moms that are looking for someone that is culturally understanding or even bilingual, I think there's a lot of benefits to that and how we can kind of it. you know, just debunk some of the myths that are within a lot of the sleep practices that we tend to not really believe in, whether if it's that crying out method but also like creating a schedule and a solid foundation for our kids. I think that is very important. And one more question for you, which I often ask at the end of my interview, how are you redefining motherhood?

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

I think by putting moms first. And letting moms know that it's not a sacrifice. It shouldn't be a sacrifice being a mom. Like just because I'm a mom, I should sacrifice my sleep, or just because I'm a mom I should sacrifice this. So I want moms to know that it shouldn't be like that. You can go first and it's okay to put yourself first or your health first.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

No, I love it. Yes. Well, thank you, Veronica, again, so much for being here. I think that there's a A lot of information that I even learned about and I'll definitely sign up

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

to my

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

webinar. Yes.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

helpful for both your kids, so for for both of them.

jessica_1_02-03-2025_201222:

absolutely. Yes. Well, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

veronica-ordonez_1_02-03-2025_201200:

Thank you. Thank you so, so much.